Friday, December 15, 2006

YOUNG FINNS TO VOTE AT 16 ?

There have been rumours and a few real debates in Finland recently. Many, it seems, are wanting the voting age to drop to 16 years of age. This, it is claimed, might help the perceived alienation of young folk when it comes to politics. Even right of centre politicos have come out in agreement here. However easy it might be to trash this move there is a need, I think, to tackle the big stories involved.

The alienation condition is at least three dimensional and involves both the individual living a productive life / the human being with a species nature society and thirdly the human being with Nature itself. I suspect that any non-alienating futures will entail a few very revolutionary changes before they are realised.

It might also be good to hear from those that want voting at 16 to say just how such an act of citizenship will be reasonably attended to when schools are hardly democratic in themselves and where any critical or even liberal studies are thrown out as being a waste of human resources and inappropriate for markets.

Maybe it is all about showbiz and image and celebrity politics.

14 comments:

anticant said...

It has been a bee in my bonnet for ages - maybe since I was a teenager - that society makes unnecessary rods for its back by treating adolescents as overgrown children instead of as young adults with social responsibilities. Whether this process has gone as far in Finland as in the UK I don't know, but I fear that most British teenagers today are crassly ignorant of, utterly bored by, and contemptuous of, politics and politicians. Whether giving them the vote would improve matters I don't know. Maybe if there was some form of proportional representation with voting made compulsory, and all ballot papers had a box stating "none of the above", the 'get lost' vote would be big enough to shake the complacency of the moribund parties and their apparatchicks. But I wonder.....

toby lewis said...

I remember being a teenager and desperately wanting the vote to be at 16. The desire to be treated seriously and the actual maturity to deserve it might be separate issues but perhaps the attempt to get people in to the habit of voting early might be a valuable way of getting them interested in the political process.

It might also make politicians a little more wary of talking so tough on juvenile crime. Not that many of the thugs of the asbo crowd deserve sympathy but our current politicians' attempts to confront youth crime leaves much to be desired.

Anonymous said...

Vicky Pollard vote?.
What a thought.
Yes, but,no,but,none of the above,but,get lost,but.......

zola a social thing said...

Yes Anticant I agree a "get lost" vote would be worthwhile. Even a vote box saying "Can't stand any of the people here - I vote against them all!

Perhaps young people deserve that respect you wish to give them so that they may respond reasonably.

zola a social thing said...

Toby : Are you considering politics alongside your philosphy career?
Could do worse yer know.

Indeed the very LABEL of "teenager" is a red herring as well as being as insult to most.

zola a social thing said...

Merkin : Oh you are an Anarchist you are.
But I can repeat a previous post when I said that i was happily amazed at Summerhill scholl around the late 1960s time. democracy there was practiced week by school week. I vote per person no matter if your name was Anthony Bliar or Lurkin Merkin and no matter if one was 10 years old or 18 or 55.
It worked then as i saw and experienced.

But as i tried similar "experiments" in education myself I did learn a bit more.
new thread that someday I guess.

Anonymous said...

Worth a thread for certain.
I was a great admirer of AS when I was studying him, at one point, in the seventies.
Later, I lived with an American girl who returned to the States to do Montessori training.
Still no cpmparison between someone learnig in that atmosphere and the typical Vicky type.
Latterly, in Poland, I was running my own school and I was given a chance to put my philosophy into action. That was a nice opportunity for me - and I found, by whatever measure, that it works.

zola a social thing said...

Oh how you tempt merkin.
Lost a few jobs over some of this i have.
Today no matter.
But i agree with your main line.
It was worth it for most STUDENTS that had the time.
Worked with a few from Poland too ( if that is really where you lurk me old merkin).
1970s is it? School is it?
You will be talking about Alice Cooper next ( then Anticant will be at me again )

anticant said...

Teenagers, like anyone else, will deserve respect when they merit it. You can't just GIVE it to them regardless. That's the fallacy in the crackpot Galloway party's thinking and similar blanket demands for "respect". It's about socialisation, as I said earlier. But all too often, adults and teachers are petrified when anyone suggests encouraging teenagers to make their own choices. Remember "The Little Red School Book?" It was successfully prosecuted for obscenity in 1971 because the authors had the temerity to tell youngsters to think for themselves about sex, drugs and politics. Le plus ca change.....

Anonymous said...

Don't think Gorgeous George is primarily concerned with the empowerment of the Vicky Pollards of this world.
No, not currently lurking in Poland - though have for a good portion of the last 11 years.
The AS Neill stuff came from a year of torture during a first degree at Glasgow Uni in the seventies.
The two models for that course were Illich and Neill and clearly Illich won the game with Brit governments 'De-schooling society'.
I was lucky that my parents were of the Oz buying Little red Schoolbook buying type - though my father didn't like me listening to Alice.
He particularly didn't think much of someone who sang 'Can't even think of a word to rhyme'.
'See I told you - trash - what's wrong with Frankie Laine?'

zola a social thing said...

Anoni : Interesting life you seem to have been leading. Reflective too.

Perhaps I might question the "de-schooling" of a Blair government being linked to a "de-schooling" from Ivan Illich. I would argue firmly that the two positions are quite apart.
Ivan illich was for a convivial kind of institution and this with a celebration of awareness. Bliar has not even an inkling of such concepts.

But I would be ready to discuss.

zola a social thing said...

Sorry : should have respected too the Scottish Ed vis-a-vis English training schemes. Done it now.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you about what Illich was about. Government has De-schooled society in a quite different way.
Sorry, my little play on words was too obscure on a Saturday night - even for me!

zola a social thing said...

Thanks Anon : My faith in Scottish Education is restored.
Ivan illich and Paulo Freire? Now that is a good little something else is it not.

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